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Have you ever searched for a deeper mind, body and spirit connection? Jack Stafford has and he puts what he learns into songs that help others.

Meet Jack Stafford

Jack Stafford is a singer-songwriter on a mission to serve others and help people overcome the materialistic message that’s distorting modern society. Jack’s new album “Deeper” is a series of self-help songs that will help people get perspective on the current crises plaguing our world. The songs are inspired by his own life experiences and mental struggles. Jack lives in southern Italy, and when he is not making music, he is practicing yoga, teaching meditation, gardening, cycling, or studying metaphysics. Check out his website here and give him a listen on Spotify and iTunes.

In This Podcast

Summary

• The mind, body, spirit connection
• The voices in our heads
• Jack’s mission…and his podcast

The mind, body, spirit connection

A self described Troubadour, Jack would play live music in houses for friends and family.

As his life got more spiritual the dialogue of the songs changed and he completed a trilogy of albums about the body, mind, spirit. A natural problem solver, Jack got into Ayurveda, Indian medicine, which helped solve a lot of his health issues. From there, he moved onto his next “problem” or the negative self talk in his head. He calls it “enemy number one,” and acknowledges it’s an ongoing process, not an easy fix. Jack drew inspiration for his songs from Vipassana retreats, 10 day silence retreats. He also has a solid meditation practice. He was able to separate the voice in his head from what was reality.

The voices in our heads

The voices in our head have an ongoing dialogue. It becomes a problem if you agree with your voice, the “I’m not good enough” thoughts. There is no argument then.

If there are two voices having that dialogue, one of them must be you or none of them must be you. If you’re permanently happy, then there’s no problem. If there’s one voice, it isn’t a problem. 

I got some separation between the voice that it is. I am not this conscious mind. I am not in the voice in my head. I am not this dialogue.

Jack’s mission…and his podcast

Because of COVID, Jack had to get creative about his music since he couldn’t perform in people’s living rooms. He was already using podcasts to promote his music, so the next thought was to have his own.

As a documentary songwriter, Jack came up with the unique concept of writing songs about his podcast guests and their conversation.

He started in July 2020 and has 60 episodes to date. With 3 interviews a week, he’s writing 12 songs a month, or an album a month. His first lockdown project was a music video with 90 people from all over the world singing different verses of the song lyrics. Jack turned a problem into an opportunity.

Progress over perfection workshop

Do you hold your self to unreasonable or unattainable standards then criticize self when don’t reach that stand?
Do you compare yourself to others? focus on parts of you that you want to change? Do expect perfection from others? Often let down because of loft expectations?
Might be a perfectionist. Perfectionism can cause anxiety, depression, disordered eating, problems in relationships, and more
Join this 5 part Progress Over Perfection workshop for bite sized, interactive assessments.

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Useful links:

• You have to listen. Then you will know with Susmitha | IT 059
• Imperfect Thriving Facebook Group
• Imperfect Thriving on Instagram
• Imperfect Thriving Free Email Course (Your Blueprint To Thrive)

Podcast Transcription

Kathryn:

Jack Stafford, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you here. 

Jack:

It’s lovely to be here. 

Kathryn:

That voice. I absolutely love it. So I want to dive right in. Your songs are amazing. And I’ve read that they’re driven quite a bit by the manipulative materials and messaging that we’re getting in society today.

I want to hear your thoughts about that. 

Jack:

Okay. Well, I should probably give you a bit of the backstory then, because I’ve always been kind of a documentary songwriter. Always documenting my own life and the struggles that I’ve been in and I’ve been working on this. I was a troubadour traveling around the world.

I played house concerts. So go to people’s living rooms and play concerts in their living room for their friends and family. And I tell the stories about where I’d come from and how I was traveling usually by bicycle. Or, by train or, or even sailing around Australia, for example. And so it was kind of a super Troubadour, you know, always telling the stories of my life.

As my life got more, shall we say spiritual then? The dialogue of the songs changed and I completed a trilogy of albums about the body, mind, spirit. If you know what I mean? I was very into Ayurveda because I’m sort of a problem solving person. 

I wasn’t too healthy.

By going very into Ayurveda, the Indian medicine, that helped me with a lot of my health issues. Once that was fixed, I moved on to the next problem. Which I have some on my mind, which I’ve had quite a few problems with as I’m sure many of your listeners also can verify. It’s number one, enemy number one, the voice up there.

I haven’t fixed that one yet. It’s still a work in progress, but I’ve got some separation, which I think is very important. 

Kathryn:

Very important. We’ll talk more about that for sure. Go ahead. 

Jack:

And then I got more spiritual. I was going to this society called the Aetherius Society, which has a kind of modern spiritual message. And yeah, so, and then I’ve been writing songs about that. I just started this new project called pod songs to try. Because I’ve been in Italy in the South and it’s been quite a strict lockdown. For a year now, I’ve been in my pajamas and there’s not much to do if you’re a touring musician.

You can’t go into people’s living rooms and play them a show. So I had to think of another way to get into people’s living rooms and legally. Because I was using podcasts such as your wonderful show to promote my music. So I thought I should have my own show.

Because I enjoy it so much and I can’t go out and meet interesting people, so they should come to me. But as I’m a musician, obviously that has to be that in there somewhere. And as I’m a documentary songwriter, you can see where I’m going with this. Yeah. I ended up writing songs about the guests, so I have people on, and then I write a song about them and the conversation.

I’ve been doing that since July last year. And I’m up to now, I recorded my 60th episode. So I’ve been doing three interviews a week, so there’s 12 songs a month. That’s an album a month, 156 songs a year. All about these people that I’m interviewing. I’m getting a lot of university professors, teachers, authors.

You name it. All types of people because I can’t have the same person on. I can’t have more than one biologist, too many physicists. It’s a bit repetitive. So. That’s kind of a rambling answer to your question. 

Kathryn:

I love it. It was a great answer. And there are so many facets of it that I want to dig into more.

So let’s look at the mental part of the spirit. I want to hear a little bit about some of your struggles there, what the voice in your head tends to typically tell you about yourself and how you’ve found space there? 

Jack:

Well, I did some of the Vipassana retreats those 10 day silence retreats. Have you heard of it?

Kathryn:

No, I would like to though. 

Jack:

Yeah. You just go and sit in, sit in a room with a hundred other people, pre COVID for 10 days in silence and concentrate on your breath. And sensations on the body. That’s pretty intense. Yeah. And it did that a couple of times over spread out over a few years as well as a lot of reading.

I wrote songs about it and I built up a solid meditation practice. And just, as I said, got some separation between the voice that it is. I am not this conscious mind, I am not in the voice in my head. I am not this dialogue. So that’s really helped. 

Kathryn:

And I don’t have to believe it. Right. You don’t have to believe what it says as if it is the gospel truth. Which many of us do. For years my brain, well, for 49 years, my brain told me that I wasn’t enough. It took me a lot of work on myself throughout my master’s program, to even figure out that that’s what my brain was telling me. Is there any one thing that you struggled with the most there?

Jack:

Well, I think the multi, because it’s not just one voice. On my podcast, I interviewed Stephen C. Hayes who developed acceptance commitment therapy. 

Kathryn:

I mean, I’m about to jump up and down. He’s the master and that is the type of therapy. Like he inspired me to open my own private practice and that is type of therapy that I use because I don’t think anything else works like that.

Jack:

Wow. 

Kathryn:

So tell me more about that.

Jack:

Okay. Well yeah, he was a great guest. He was my second guest. And because these people, when you say, can I write a song about you. Even celebrities, they say yes, because it’s such an unusual thing. So yeah. And I wrote a song about, about act and all the different facets of it.

Like you mentioned, your mind’s a bus thoughts, the passengers they’re disrupting your driving and causing a fuss. Keep your destination sign, always in mind. You write down all the different voices, like it’s a dialogue. And then, because the problem there, if you agree with your voice, I’m not good enough, then there’s no problem.

There’s no argument, but the problem is this choice. Two voices. Oh yes. Sorry. Oh, no, you don’t. And so if there’s two voices, obviously one of them must be you or none of them must be you. So that’s a kind of a good way to understand it. If you’re permanently happy or up, then there’s no problem.

If there’s one voice, it isn’t a problem. 

Kathryn:

Yes, absolutely. I cannot believe you had him on your show. That is amazing.

Jack:

Check out the song. It’s a hit.

Kathryn:

Oh, I’m definitely gonna check out that song. 

Jack:

It’s on Spotify, everywhere, iTunes. 

Kathryn:

Oh, I can’t wait. That’s awesome. So your new album, tell me a little bit about your newest album.

Jack:

Well, that has been replaced. So I’ve done five albums with these pod songs now. 

Kathryn:

So your 6th newest album. 

Jack:

Who ho knows what it is, but the pre-pod song album is called Pod songs, my show. So the last album that I released was called “Deeper.” And this is all about, you’re not the voice in your head.

Are you the master of your mind? These are just some of the titles, but passion. Cause I came from quite a Buddhist influence and so yeah, those kind of analyzing the voice songs. 

Kathryn:

That’s great. And I’ve watched a video from “Deeper” where you had what at least 90 people from all over the world.

How did that go?

Jack:

That was my first lockdown project. And that was because I couldn’t film a music video that I had planned. So I can get all my friends to sing the song for me and they can they can mouth the words. And it’s about the voice in your head and the worry background worry going on.

Cravings or aversions different things, different versions. I couldn’t get everyone to sing the whole song cause you have to memorize it. You can’t be looking at the screen and reading. It was terrible. So I divided up all the different verses by age group.

So the children’s seeing the first part. Teenagers, middle-aged, old people. And then it’s a beautiful effect because the song is about worrying yourself to death and you can see it happen. 

Kathryn:

Yes. And I saw that and I loved that representation of starting with the youngest and going to the oldest.

Jack:

It was just a problem, just happen because of a problem. And I only did all these projects because of problems. And all these problems are making me better and improving me. So bring them on. 

Kathryn:

Exactly. I’ve come to the conclusion that if you just decide to look at every problem as an opportunity, something incredible can come out of it.

And you’re a living example of that. So I know I’ve read that you live in seclusion in Italy. Did this come about because of COVID or before COVID.

Jack:

No, no, everyone’s coming around to my way of living now.

Kathryn:

You were social distancing before it was cool. 

Jack:

Yeah, exactly. I’m leading the trend here. I need a virus to keep me in my house. 

Kathryn:

Absolutely no followers here for sure. Only leaders. So you’ve had jobs as a copywriter, musician, fashion designer, obviously you are incredibly creative. Do you think with that sort of creativity gene comes sensitivity?

Jack:

Yeah, I think so. I mean many problems as well.  Because I ran many of these projects, simultaneously. So, I was just always taking too much on my plate. And that’s one thing I’ve discovered later in life is if you put all your energies down one single channel, focus it, then you can move mountains because I was always very fragmented in the past.

Kathryn:

All over the place. And so that led to some burnout, correct? 

Jack:

Yeah. I mean, it was inevitable. Yeah. 

Kathryn:

Paint me sort of a slow motion picture, a slow motion video  of what that looked like for you, how you realized you were in burnout and how you saw yourself at that moment. 

Jack:

Well, it’s difficult to say, but I mean, I think that the more capacity you have in the more skills and the more energy the faster you can go on the treadmill.

So inevitably you’re going to crash. I never really stopped, I kind of kept going through it. I broke up with my girlfriend, sold my house. Kind of split and went around the world for two years. Because the energy was still flowing, so I just kind of spun off like a chip in space, and I’ve been traveling for two years.

Now I’m kind of like a bouncing ball, bouncing slower and slower and slower. It’s taken me eight years in Italy now to really stop. Now I’ve not no momentum, but I still have the energy. So I’m working on this pod songs project. 

Kathryn:

Did you land in Italy because it’s an easier place to slow down?

Jack:

No, it’s actually quite difficult. What the story was. I met my girlfriend when we were traveling around eight months around Asia, cycling around Asia,  playing on the streets, busking for food and dumpster diving. Then she had to come back to Italy to finish her exams. And so I came back with her.

And when you have the kind of this type of personality it’s difficult to just sit and do nothing. So I kind of railed against it. When you take someone to a sleepy village, when I’ve been used to, fretting doing lots of things is quite difficult. You can put someone in paradise, but they might not be very happy.

It’s taken me a long time to bring myself down and to the frequency of the pace of life here.

Kathryn:

Yeah, absolutely. I can see that for sure. Tell me a little bit more about, is it Aetherius Society? Am I pronouncing it correctly?

Jack:

Yeah. Yeah. 

Kathryn:

Tell me a little bit more about what that is and how you learned from that, how it’s affected you.

Jack:

Well, that’s a big one. Yeah. I mean, that could be a lot to take in for some people, but I’ll give it a go. So I was in India and I started waking up at 3:33 every night on the dot, that was kind of weird. So, what does that mean? Waking up that time, it could be like a spirit guide or an angel.

I mean, I had nothing, no experience of anything like that before. And you Google it as you do with all things. And it says, look for synchronicities in your daytime. So I did, and I started seeing Kundalini everywhere and I was staying behind a Kundalini yoga center. 

Someone said, read the serpent power, which is a bit very famous yoga book about Kundalini. So I did, and I started watching this because it’s a very complicated book. I started watching a YouTube class from this guy in Miami. So called Naomi Davis, who was the mystic mystic knowledge channel on YouTube. He’s an American quarterback, huge guy.

So there’s me in India, getting my enlightenment from know you expect at least a Guru to come in the room or something like that. But that’s the way it works now, you know? So anyway, he was doing like, I’m never into metaphysics or anything like that, but he’s a like a Yogi. He started from three years old, doing mantra and pranayama to activate the Prana flow in his body and open the chakras and raise Kundalini.

Get all these superpowers, which in for us superpowers and some people, you’re born with it. Or it comes on spontaneously, but with yogis, they have these exercises, these Pranayamas, and they get clairvoyance from a methodical way. It’s a metaphysical science, meta science to get it.

Anyway, his Guru was an Englishman from Yorkshire. So there’s me in India getting advice from a Yorkshireman via a guy in Miami. That’s crazy, I couldn’t be making this up. He is the yoga master for the theory and for the Aquarian age we’re in now.

He’s the most advanced Yogi that we’ve had. He has cosmic elements to his teacher, that when we’re born, sorry, when we die, the opposite, the body you have enlightenment and cosmic consciousness. So, but then we know we go on to interplanetary existence. There’s this cosmic element to the teachings.

You kind of evolve off this planet. So that’s that cosmic element, which I’m sure is a lot to take in. So. Maybe that’s as far as we should go. And if people are interested, they can check  Aetherius.org is the website.

Kathryn:

Yes, that’s a great place to go check it out. So what would you say maybe were your three biggest takeaways from your spiritual journey?

Jack:

Knowing that you’re in a lifecycle on this earth, because I noticed you had some guests on your show about, the other realm. Life after death, when you die, you don’t die. You go to the astral realms. You die there and you reborn here. You die here and you’re reborn there.

So you’re in two stages of reincarnation and the Astral realms. Where are they? They’re exactly in the same place. There are different frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. So they’re solid, but they’re just at a different frequency of existence. When you die, you go exactly here with your astral body, and then you come back and then you go there and you come back. Once you’ve raised Kundalini naturally or fit or forced it.

Then, and you’ve done it enough times and you’ve achieved cosmic enlightenment and cosmic consciousness. Then you can leave the lifecycle of this earth. So it gives, it gives you an understanding that there’s a purpose to all this classroom that we’re learning. What you took to graduate through surface to others.

Where then you can you don’t have to be keep being reborn, which will be nice.

Kathryn:

Yes. That is so interesting. Like that is an area that I have not done any study in. So you’ve really primed my interest, like to go learn more. That is so cool.

Jack:

Yeah. Because if you believe in reincarnation and everything has a beginning and everything has an end, and if we’re in reincarnation, there must be an arc.

I mean there must be a curve. So what’s at the bottom. What’s at the top. Where do you go? I mean, If you think more about it, if you go okay. I believe in reincarnation. Because these people have near death experiences and they speak to their loved ones. So what’s behind this, how’s it?

What’s the process? This book called “The Nine Freedoms,” which tells us these stages and that’s the most advanced teaching that’s ever been given. And you can get that from the  Aetherius Society.

Kathryn:

 Oh, okay. Cool. When I talk to clients in my practice, I’m always espousing the fact that we are one whole mental, physical, spiritual being, you really can’t separate.

Right? The mental from the physical. How has your spiritual journey, your spiritual enlightenment affected your mental part of you? Your outlook. Tell me how the spiritual has affected the mental. 

Jack:

Well, to take myself less important. To get some separation there that this conscious mind is not me. I’m the spirit and then the soul.

Don’t take myself so seriously. I’m just this collection of experiences speaking to your collection of experiences. 

Kathryn:

Yeah. I’m very in touch with that. I have so many clients who, we stay in our own heads, worrying about the judgment of others. So much time in our own minds, doing that when those others aren’t spending all of their time, worrying about us.

They’re doing the same thing. So I think that’s another aspect. If we realize that everybody is not thinking about us, we don’t have to take ourselves so seriously. We can get out of our heads and back into our lives a lot easier.

Jack:

If you have your mind properly trained, I mean, imagine the power.

Half an hour, you’re going to sit down and learn the piano or whatever you want to do, and you will learn French for an hour and you. Do you want to do Just imagine the power you can, if you were in charge of the mind, it’s a lot. 

Kathryn: 

It really is. When you find that clarity and can separate yourself, like you said. Find space between you and that voice. Make the choice and know that you have the power to believe what it’s saying or not get tangled up in it. Then you can really focus on your goals, your values, what you want in life versus what you’re scared of. And what’s holding you back. 

Jack:

And it’s really service to others. So the shortcuts, the way you have to get over this is just pour yourself into service to others. Because then you really don’t have to worry about anything. The happiness will come, money will come food.

If you’re cooking for 20 people, there’ll be a bit leftover for you. Everything, all your problems are solved. 

Kathryn:

Absolutely. I could not agree more. Because the other thing with my clients who have social anxiety, they’re so worried about the judgment of others. They don’t want to go talk to someone because they’re afraid they’re going to be awkward.

And I just tell them, this is not the only thing I tell them. But one of the things I tell them is just think about the other person. Think about what you want to know about the other person. Go ask. When you do that, a conversation will follow. There will not be anything awkward. If you let go of yourself and focus on the other person.

Jack:

That’s fantastic. Yeah. I mean, you’re helping people all the time. Every evening, instead of watching TV, you’re out, doing something for this, keeping an old person company. Helping someone with single parent. Driving someone here, just packing your time with all these activities, then you have any time for your own worries.

Kathryn:

No and it almost becomes this selfish is not the word that I want to use, but the more I do for other people, the more selfish I feel about it because I know afterwards I feel even better than they do.

Jack:

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Fantastic. There’s absolutely nothing like it. Yeah. So I’m wondering if you would be up for a little lightning round.

Jack:

Oh, go for it.

Kathryn:

I know that I want to know a little bit more about who you are and what you like. I’m thinking listeners might also want to. First of all, where are you from? Where were you born?

Jack:

I was born in Lincoln. In England.

Kathryn:

Okay. And did you grow up there or were you all over?

Jack:

We moved to Barris and Edmunds in Suffolk when I was 11. Lived there till I was 21, and then I moved to the Netherlands and I lived there for 10 years. Then I went traveling for two years and then I came to Italy for eight years.

I think that’s close enough. 

Kathryn:

That’s better than I could do for sure. Soccer or cricket?

Jack:

Soccer.

Kathryn:

 Meat lover, vegan, or somewhere in between?

Jack:

The closest I can get to vegan, vegetarian definitely. 

Kathryn:

Snow or sand? 

Jack:

Hm, I’d say snow.

Kathryn:

Sunrise or sunset? 

Jack:

Sunrise. 

Kathryn:

Cats or dogs? 

Jack:

Dogs. 

Kathryn:

Spaghetti or ravioli? 

Jack:

Spaghetti.

Kathryn:

Who is your favorite musician?

Jack:

Bob Dylan. I love Bob Dylan. Yeah.

Kathryn:

Yeah. I could totally see that. So tell me where our listeners can find your music and find you and just get more of you online. 

Jack:

podsongs.com is the best place to start. Okay. But if it’s on all the songs are on every Spotify, iTunes, Deezer.

The podcast is everywhere as well. So, but like, the center of it, the spoke the hub in the wheel is podsongs.com 

Kathryn:

 Yeah. I think your podcast is going to become one of my new binge listenings in the morning when I go exercise. I’m going to have to check that out. 

Jack:

Start with Stephen number two.

Kathryn:

Absolutely. If I could only write a song, maybe I could get him on my show. But alas, that is not one of my strengths. So the other question that I ask all of my guests, when we wrap up is what is one imperfect action that we can all take today to move closer to our best lives? 

Jack:

Yeah. Service to others.

So anything you can do, find who’s the person now that you know is most in need and you don’t have to look very far. I just give them a call. 

Kathryn:

Well, I second that motion. If all of you could just go out and do at least one small act of kindness or service for someone that is either in your life right now, a neighbor or even a stranger that you come upon that looks like they need help.

You will be better off for it. So I just appreciate you being on the show. I’ve had a great time talking to you today and about your journey and your mission and what you are contributing to the world. 

Jack:

Oh, it’s an honor to me. I thank you so much for having me. 

Kathryn:

Thank you.